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| Wood grade for beginner? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8805 |
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| Author: | nathan c [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:13 am ] |
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I'm about to order the wood for my first build. I want black walnut for back and sides and probably sitka for the top. Currently, I don't think there's a point in using first grade wood for a first build. The expense and the fact that there is great potential for me screwing up the build  . I'm looking at 2nd or 3rd grade.
So here's the questions. 1. What grade of wood did you use for your first? 2. Do you wish you had used a lesser/greater afterwards? |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:18 am ] |
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When I started I had the idea that if I was going to put this much time into it I might as well go the distance and use good woods. Now that I am much farther along I will tell you that is nonsense. It is better to start with nice wood... not fantastic wood. Walnut is a good choice, it is cheap, looks great and bends very well. For the top I would be a very good quality top, but not worry if it is cosmetically perfect. Any species would be fine... Sitka, Adi, Lutz all of those are very nice and can be very inexpensive in the A or AA grades. Buy for the quality properties of the wood and not the cosmetics. If worse comes to worse, you can always paint it black... 
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| Author: | nathan c [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:20 am ] |
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Brock! ROFL From my short time here, I have learned that paint is blasphemy!
Thanks for the feedback. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:31 am ] |
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[QUOTE=nathan c] Brock! ROFL From my short time here, I have learned that paint is blasphemy!
Thanks for the feedback. [/QUOTE] Don't listen to them... Paint is cool. A mahogany guitar with a black top is HOT... and don't let anyone tell you different.  
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:37 am ] |
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I'm going to assume that "build" means a guitar. I feel strongly that this question is a no-brainer. If you have talent and do your research, you can build a fine guitar the first time out. The difference in cost between a good top and an inferior one is trivial when compared with the work you are going to do (and your investment in tools and supplies). If you do good work, you will forever regret not spending a few dollars more on wood. That is a much greater regret than being out a few more dollars if your work is poor. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:40 am ] |
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Nathan, It's true you don't have to spend a small fortune on wood to make a decent guitar. Take mahogany as an example for b&s sets. You can get them pretty cheap, from around $30 and up for the set. Same with sitka or cedar for a top. You can get those relatively cheap, and only have a couple hundred invested in materials for the whole guitar, or even less. My first guitar was made with lumberyard cedar, and some hardwood from a local hardwood store. It wasn't wide so I resawed it and made a 4-piece back from it. Ok, it was ziricote, but it was overkill. I also shortly thereafter made a mahogany dread from lumberyard wood and cedar. It came out nice, and the materials were relatively cheap. If you're going to buy a top from one of our vendors here, simply ask them to select one that's inexpensive but has decent qualities such as stiffness, tap tone, and lack of runout. I will always comment on different sets for customers if they ask, as will the other guys here like Bob Zoot and Steve Colonial. And Brock's right....black painted top on mahogany guitar can look cool. Ask Hesh! What Howard said makes a good deal of sense too. You certainly don't need to buy high-end, but bottom shelf isn't worth the $20 extra you would spend on good wood. |
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| Author: | Louis Freilicher [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:06 am ] |
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I would put your money into a great top and brace wood and use a lesser grade on the back and sides. I would look for something with straight grain in the back, as woods with dramatic figure or grain reversal patterns can be much harder to join, especially for a beginner. My first was an AA rosewood and Engelmann L-00 and I have been very happy with her. She's held up very well and sounds great after 10 years. Remember to keep in simple. You will learn plenty from your mistakes and successes. Good luck! Louis |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:15 am ] |
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For the top, good wood doesn't cost much more than bad wood. Master grade wood is a different story; it costs a lot more, but IMHO it doesn't have much, if any, impact on tone or appearance. Back and side wood --- there's lots of very nice mahogany, padauk and other reasonably priced woods that will sound very good. For back and sides, price has a lot more to do with how rare a wood is than how good it will sound. Spend $50 on a Sitka top, $30-$40 on some nice mahogany, and you will have an instrument as beautiful and tonally pleasing as your skills will allow, no matter what level your skills are at. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:02 am ] |
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My personal opinion is EIRW or Mahogany for a first nice AA or AAA is fine but for top I would go with AAA min. Sitka or Engelman. My thinking here is get a good stiff top as the cost differance in AA and AAA is neglisable. |
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| Author: | nathan c [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:29 am ] |
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Today I ordered a fine grade sitka top and a nice set of medium figured Walnut back and sides from Steve at Colonial. Now I just have to wait for it! The last time I can remember feeling like this about waiting for a package is when I saved up enough G.I. Joe points to get the "Hooded Cobra Commander" and "The Fridge"! Thanks everyone for your input. |
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| Author: | John Lewis [ Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:50 am ] |
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Nathan- You will like the wood from Steve. He tends to grade very strictly, so you end up with much nicer wood than you are expecting. When the wood arrives WE WANT PICTURES PLEASE. 
Thanks- |
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| Author: | Kim [ Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:03 am ] |
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Nathan, You have chosen very well and I must agree whole heartedly with John. I have received a number of orders now from Steve @ Colonial and each and every time, without exception, I have been very, very pleased with the quality of wood supplied. As for the service? In a word, impeccable
Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Dave Anderson [ Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:55 am ] |
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Good Luck with # 1 Nathan and have fun with it. You will really like working with walnut!
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:30 am ] |
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Good luck, Nathan! A few years ago, I was running the woodshop at my university with jigs coming out my ears. I was really into seeing how many things I could automate with jigs with the guitars I was working on. I was more into the automation than the guitars I was working on. Now a few years removed, and a few years removed from the message boards filled with hyperbole prone non-builders that make that way seem like the only way to build a "good" guitar, I'm taking my sweet time, and the guitar I just started for myself is going smooth smooth smooth. My advice is to be patient. It's not like we have production deadlines. I'm intentionally slowing myself down at the start. I've had my top, back, and sides sanded and joined for a few days, but didn't draw things out until yesterday. I intentionally waited until the wood arrived to order rosette materials so I wouldn't be able to plow into the top without getting refocused. Even after I do, I have a few days until some things from John Mayes get here that will keep me from moving on. I'm pacing myself like this on purpose because I know my tendency to try to plow forward without stepping back to evaluate and focus back in. Also, trust your hands. If you move patiently, there's no reason your hands can't do what you need them to do. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:34 am ] |
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My last piece of advice: own it in your head. Let your hands teach you some things about the way something feels, but own the process in your head before you start. Know what your trying to do and what you want the end result to be. I'm primarily thinking about the worksmanship here, not necessarily voicing the instrument. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:32 am ] |
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Nathan, James has real good advice there, take your time, you're not selling it anyway!
Great choice for your wood, i'd say that it is best to start with nice wood, it forces you to go slow if you don't want to damage the wood! 
I'll second everyone who asks for pics of the wood you will receive!
Good luck to you friend! Serge |
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